New Combustion Chamber Modification by Somender Singh

myckee · #1 08-23-2005, 11:26 AM

According to Somender Singh, if the quench area of the combustion chamber is scored, detonation is decreased, huge cams idle smoother, and fuel efficiency is increased. Have any of you heard of this? He has a large website dedicated to his research.

I think if I had an old set of heads and easy access to a dyno, or in car dyno, I'd be tempted to try it.....

Thoughts?

From the website:

Quote:

What do the grooves do?

"Without grooves, the combustion is incomplete and unburned fuel remains in the cylinder. This unburned fuel is still expanding during the exhaust stroke; with the engine idling at the end of the exhaust stroke the expanding unburned gases flow past the intake valve into the intake manifold causing poor idle.

With the grooved cylinder heads combustion is more complete leaving little unburned fuel behind, more of the fuel is used to generate power and less is used to generate heat. (That’s also why the engines run cooler). With the modified heads little or no unburned fuel remains during the exhaust stroke. With less unburned fuel to expand during the overlap period the gasses flowing past the intake valve are reduced resulting in improved idle quality."

PONTIAC DUDE · #2 08-23-2005, 04:12 PM

I'll put it this way. I had a big a$$ roller in a 9.8-1 455 and ran 10.70's (N/A) in a 3500 lb car with 3.55 gears. 93 octane Pump gas.
According to the rules it ain't suppose to work. But I was never conventional............ and never will be. Been building them that way for the street for 20 years. LOL.

Junkyard Dog · #3 08-23-2005, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

I'll put it this way. I had a big a$$ roller in a 9.8-1 455 and ran 10.70's (N/A) in a 3500 lb car with 3.55 gears. 93 octane Pump gas.
According to the rules it ain't suppose to work. But I was never conventional............ and never will be. Been building them that way for the street for 20 years. LOL.

Are you saying you scored your combustion chambers?

Chris Roach · #4 08-23-2005, 08:02 PM

Yeah, Dude, What exactly are you saying?

If I recall, someone a few months back, posted about dimping the combustion chamber. Same theory?

Silver Judge · #5 08-23-2005, 08:06 PM

I've read about this Singh fella's work on engines in Popular Mechanics Mag.
A lot of his work was on motorcycle engines if I remember right. I'm no engineer but I think he's on to something there even though all the automakers have turned a cold shoulder on him and his ideas. I believe he's approached them all and gotten nowhere.

ponjohn · #6 08-23-2005, 08:08 PM

Dude- What did the heads flow in thw above example?

PONTIAC DUDE · #7 08-23-2005, 09:28 PM

No I was referring to big cams with lower compression. You don't have to have a specific chamber to acomplish this.
It's all in the combo.

There have been quite a few chamber ideas in the 35 plus years messing with this. Some work, some don't and some work.............. depending on the parts used. What works with one chamber design might not work with another depending on various things. Port flow, runner design, velocity, intake runners. plentum, carb size, valve size, cam profile, stroke, and the list goes on.

screamingchief · #8 08-23-2005, 10:20 PM

That was an intresting read for sure...

Ya'll have any curiosity about this check out that link,it does get one to thinking thats for sure.

And the fact that about 99% of pontiacs have flat tops and use some degree of "quench" or "squish" as they refer to it,does make one wonder if this could have some merit.

Just need a few brave souls with some extra parts,time,and $$$$ to try it and prove/disprove the theory one way or the other.

So who's going be the first guinea pig????

By the way the pic posted is from a SBC head i believe,they have a few pics of some folks who tried this,one was a BBC with domes.

issach428 · #9 08-23-2005, 10:41 PM

Dude, that big a@@ cam is about to be fired in my 462 9.7:1 very soon i will post times maybe this weekend!!! So on this head modification is it just the groove?

mikeb · #10 08-23-2005, 10:48 PM

I'm guessing it's more about turbulance. That slot looks like it might shoot a stream of compressed mixture right at the spark plug when the piston gets close to the head.

screamingchief · #11 08-23-2005, 10:55 PM

Something like that,though in part of the article they state it works best when the deck clerarance is around .070" inch or so,so it might help to use a thicker than average head gasket if applying their technique to a zero decked motor.

Quote:

5. Ensure a 0.070" piston to head clearance is maintained, measured at engine assembly. Most hot rodders are tempted to raise the compression by reducing the piston to head clearance down to 0.040" or less, resist the temptation.

issach428 · #12 08-23-2005, 11:08 PM

it looks like a groove to shoot it towards the outer part of the gasket.. i dont see how it would realy work...

Half-Inch Stud · #13 08-23-2005, 11:10 PM

Singe got my attention. His low-cost implementation of "total turbulence" to fracture the flamefront is a savy approach to make pseudo kernel confinement. In peoplespeak we use high compression to keep the flame kernel small by the approaching piston, while the fuel burns. PV = NRT is in effect for high compression acting to suppress the flame front expansion, yet the 10+:1 engines need "Octane" factored fuel to make that idea work.

However, Singe says low "Octane" fuel can work well when the flamefront is completely interrupted. Provided his way of interupting the expansion wave is met with a match to the acoustic front, and the IR (Infrared) heat front velocities. HE simply introduced an aerothermal splitter into the flamefront that works to have an pressure wave "back-to-back" with itself (a split pressure wave in a controlled way) to result in a sustained kernel confinement despite the chamber details. So, Singe has arrived at a control surface that indeed provides flamefront manipulation to effect a reduced sensitivity to "Octane" sensitivity.

Other than that, I feel very little motivation to contribute pearls to the most awful swine that happen to be reading this website. However, perhaps there is Hope to help somebodys pass time with much joy.

HIS

Half-Inch Stud · #14 08-23-2005, 11:13 PM

Mykee, thank you for bringing up this most useful topic. As that is just what this site is supposed to be about.

HIS

speedshopmike · #15 08-24-2005, 01:06 AM

this is indeed interesting.
pontiac dude, what's so hard about making a big cam work on a moderate cr mtor on pump gas? - i think i'm missing something here

Schurkey · #16 08-24-2005, 01:39 AM

So, hey, I'll step up to the plate and declare myself one of the "most awful swine".

I don't see any swingin' gate on that groove. If we apply Fudd's first principle, What Goes Out, Must Come Back In, we'd see that if there's a jet of combustable gas squirting out of that groove directed at the spark plug, so as to divide 'n' conquer the flame front as the piston goes up, when the pressure in the main part of the combustion chamber increases due to the heat of combustion, wouldn't there be a similar backwards jet directed back into the squish area of the chamber as the piston starts back down? And if that's happening, and that back flow happens to be red-hot and angry, any remaining air/fuel mix that stayed in the squish area is likely to be ignited by what amounts to a blow-torch. And since he says to increase the squish gap to .070 instead of the more widely recommended clearance of, lets say .040-.050, there's gonna be a greater volume of those remainder gasses just loitering around in the squish area waiting to get hit with the torch.

Singh's a genius. He's got all the advantages of a squish chamber and more, (lots of turbulance, and directed exactly where it does the most good) AND all the advantages of an open chamber (no confined area to hold cooled and unburned fuel/air mix.)

Or, should I let the air out of my sneakers, and see if I'm just another Bozo on this bus?

PONTIAC DUDE · #17 08-24-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedshopmike

this is indeed interesting.
pontiac dude, what's so hard about making a big cam work on a moderate cr mtor on pump gas? - i think i'm missing something here

Nothing hard, nothing missing. But listening to some Guru's over the years, ya can't make power. LOL. I keep seeing that too big a cam or big cams need compression to work, yada, yada.

J.C.you · #18 08-24-2005, 10:25 AM

believe this is done on pistons where domes are used. flame slots? wouldn't a groove in the piston accomplish the same idea? be a good question to ask Mr. Singh........

romulus · #19 08-24-2005, 03:15 PM

Thanks for posting this info, Its always cool to hear about new ideas being developed. I am not surprised at the automakers reactions. This is typical of their disdain for any ideas not their own.
J.C., I would think the groove in the piston would accomplish the same function, provided it mirrored the positioning of the groove in the chamber. Notice how the groove points directly toward the plug and becomes shallower as it moves radially away. It appears he is attempting to reshape the flame kernel as HIS so eloquently explained (until he called us all swine)

HIS, I have always found your insights interesting and entertaining, once you get past your Fear and Loathing..

"Never assume you are the smartest person in the room, but never assume you are the dumbest either"--- Hunter S. Thompson

screamingchief · #20 08-24-2005, 03:33 PM

The flame groove's principal lies in the fact it opens up a path for the air/fuel mixture to "see" the spark plugs flame kernal when the dome shrouds a portion of the chamber from the spark plug as opposed to allowing it to alter the quench (squish) area and its charachteristics.

But even with that modification in relative terms the flame front "propagation" would still be considered slow by many,and the impact is usually not all that helpful in increasing the atomization inside the chamber much at all.

This theory is saying that the modification increases the in chamber turbulence which in turn keeps the air/fuel mixture highly atomized,thus making it much easier to burn the mixture very quickly and efficiently.

So the the two mods in some situations would'nt necessarilly be mutually exclusive,they may even be mutually beneficial if done properly to deal with a very large dome in a compact chamber.

I could even concieve of the possible benefits from the addition of other slots in a situation like that in following this theory...

This does get the gray matter upstairs something to "kick around".