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The writing on the wall is getting visible ? ! Or better understood !
Grooved Forever !!!
God help those ............ who ............ ? Realize what is comming !
From the dyno graphs and examples that you’ve posted it appears that this greatly improves low end response and drivability, but actually hurts top end horsepower production. You’ve posted examples of vehicles overcammed for the application (pickup with the race cam) as well as a few race cars that are either over cammed or ran too high a compression and this change tamed them down.
That seems reasonable. The question is what is happening on the top end? Is it that the engines haven’t been tuned for the changes (most likely needing less fuel and/or less timing advance/high speed retard) or is the grooved chamber actually doing something like effecting the complete filling or scavenging of the chamber hurting top end power?
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Re:Power
Date: 2005/08/25 10:47
By: kirch1999
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Karma: 1
I'd say if people are picking up mph in the quarter mile, there has to be an increase in the top end. Maybe I'm wrong because of the mid range and low range increases, I would like to see some dyno sheets of before and after.
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Re:Power
Date: 2005/08/25 12:52
By: Silverback
Status:
Generally I’d agree except in the case where the current power band is higher then what the rest of the chassis (especially converter and gears) is setup for, then you’ll gain by increasing the low end even if you loose top end hp, by leaving harder, not bogging off the line…
In a few of the examples it was either clear that that was the case or suggested, and then in another example the situation was that the engine would detonate with the available fuel and would have to run greatly retarded ignition timing, and after modifications it was able to run full timing (which was actually less then what it was before) which again, would run faster without actually picking up top end/hp from the modified chamber, just allowed you to use what is available.
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Re:Power
Date: 2005/08/25 13:11
By: Silverback
Status:
Karma: 0
And actually, that raises another question. The dyno chart posted listed numbers partially modified and fully modified heads. Since we’re basically talking about cutting a slot(s) in the chamber, I’m wondering what qualifies as “partially modified.”
(huh, I wonder why it posted my last post as a visitor?)
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Re:Power
Date: 2005/08/25 18:49
By: Automotivebreath
Status:
Karma: 1
I have seen improvements in low end and top end power. 60 foot times are improved and MPH is improved. I believe the complete combustion eliminates piston slap. I now run the ignition timing lower than before the modification. I'm tempted to lean it out and run it on kill just to see what it will do but I haven’t done so. I run my engines a shade lean anyway, I find they run more consistent that way.
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Re:Power
Date: 2005/08/25 23:10
By: Silverback
Status:
Karma: 0
Can you post details of your combination before and after?
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Re:Power
Date: 2005/10/05 12:25
By: somender
Status:
Karma: 4
See the secton entitled "Testing Results" for the latest data from Automotivebreath.
The dyno test mentioned above is for a Briggs and Stratton (basically a lawnmower engine) light duty motor.
The 'partially modified' section is in reference to a small number of grooves and the fully modified entry is regarding more grooves in that same engine.
The real dyno numbers you are looking for will arrive shortly.
Silverback mentions timing being lower as if it is a bad thing. Same with compression. Higher compression is an advantage. If you can get the same power out of a lower RPM then you are saving that much fuel while doing the same work. This is an advantage no matter what the theoretical mechanics will tell you.
In daily driving, the grooves represent a significant advantage over existing complicated and expensive modifications.
The enhanced cams were part of the individual engine overhaul projects in general and were not necessary to realize benefits from the groove. Just read the posts by others who have done nothing more than groove and shave the heads. In the case of Nobsta's lawnmower and the Arctic Cat snowmobile, significant improvements were made across the board that will smooth engine performance, increase the length of the engines useful life, reduce maintenance needs, and provide more power with faster response than any engine modification at a comparable price.
It also just so happens that all of the advantages are applicable to the race track as well.
We are all surprised that this has not 'taken' in a big way. Suffice it to say that we anticipate a watershed moment once the cat is out of the bag. Some die hards need a set of numbers before they will believe what the testimonials and photos all indicate. These folks are going to still be climbing the learning curve while we blow them away on the street and on the track.
Cheers.
Post edited by: somender, at: 2005/10/05 13:27
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